Getting CF-29 MK4 to wake up from suspend state

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EdFromBJCS
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Re: Getting CF-29 MK4 to wake up from suspend state

#41 Post by EdFromBJCS »

Sadlmkr wrote: :rolleyes: Ya didn't tell 'em where you learned it I trust. :rolleyes:
I put a "thank you" in the description on the second video. Meant to do it the video itself but I forgot!

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mklym
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta

Re: Getting CF-29 MK4 to wake up from suspend state

#42 Post by mklym »

kode-niner wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2016 8:43 pm Hey Jeff, maybe you should add acpi_osi=Linux to your kernel boot.
Too bad it was not as simple as that. :damnit:

Six years down the road and I am not able to get suspend to work properly. I say properly because I can get the unit to suspend with no issues, using different methods (e.g: in terminal 'sudo pm-suspend', setting the power manager to suspend the unit when the 'suspend' button (F7) combination Fn+F7, setting power manager to suspend the unit when the lid is closed) but can not get the unit to wake up. I have to hit it and knock it out, then throw water on it to revive it so it will boot. In other words, I have to hold the power switch on until the unit shuts down.

After spending much time to get this 29 to suspend and wake properly, it seems that Linux generally does not like the way Panasonic implements ACPI on Toughbooks. Different brands of laptop, with basically the same cpu, gpu, chipset, etc running Linux can be suspended and woke up without any major issues. Most trigger suspend through the logout menu, then shut the lid. When they open the lid, the unit comes out of sleep/suspend. Easy-peasy.

I have tried a few different kernels and a few different live Linux sticks.
The exact same result: lockup :blowaway:

I have tried laptop mode tools but it does nothing about the suspend/wake issue. Also have spent much time reading mans for power management and tools but have found nothing that works on the 29s.

So can we fix this issue? Does it need to be addressed in a kernel patch/update? Or is there no interest any more due to the age of the 29s?
CF-D1DW2,CF-29LTQ,CF-31SBM,CF-52youngGUN,

Life's Journey is not to arrive safely at the grave in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn-out shouting 'Woo Hoo! What a ride!

Motorsports - the only real sport. If it doesn't have a motor, it is just a game.

There is always something waiting at the end of the road, if you are not willing to see what it is, you probably shouldn't be out there in the first place.

Michael AU
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2022 6:35 pm

Re: Getting CF-29 MK4 to wake up from suspend state

#43 Post by Michael AU »

It's not just 29s, I find in general Linux suspend sucks. It is one of my pet peeves with Linux.
CF-29 x 3, CF-30, CF-31, CF-D1.

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mklym
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta

Re: Getting CF-29 MK4 to wake up from suspend state

#44 Post by mklym »

Michael AU wrote: Sun Jun 26, 2022 1:03 pm It's not just 29s, I find in general Linux suspend sucks. It is one of my pet peeves with Linux.
Suspend with Linux is not stellar but usable with other models.

That was not as positive a response as I was hoping for, especially from one of the top Linux Gurus.

:damnit: ;)
CF-D1DW2,CF-29LTQ,CF-31SBM,CF-52youngGUN,

Life's Journey is not to arrive safely at the grave in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn-out shouting 'Woo Hoo! What a ride!

Motorsports - the only real sport. If it doesn't have a motor, it is just a game.

There is always something waiting at the end of the road, if you are not willing to see what it is, you probably shouldn't be out there in the first place.

Michael AU
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2022 6:35 pm

Re: Getting CF-29 MK4 to wake up from suspend state

#45 Post by Michael AU »

I am honoured that you consider me a "top Linux Guru" but regret to inform you that while I do know my way around Linux my main skill is gathering information and then doing the modifications that others have assisted me to find. Linux is primarily a server system that has the desktop gui added on top unlike Windows that is primary a desktop gui system that can also be a server (and a pretty shonky server at that). Of all the laptops I have had running Linux (3 Acer, 1 Samsung, 5 Toughbook) only 1 Acer was able to use suspend as it should be used. The only suggestion I can make at this time that I thin may be worthwhile is give the latest Ubuntu LTS a go or Ubuntu based Linux Mint. Ubuntu does pride itself on fixing things other distros can't thus the slogan "It just works".
CF-29 x 3, CF-30, CF-31, CF-D1.

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mklym
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Re: Getting CF-29 MK4 to wake up from suspend state

#46 Post by mklym »

So if I read that right, you are implying that the underlying reason that suspend does not work in Linux is because it is basically as server OS with a GUI and that servers are never meant to be suspended. Okay, that makes sense to me, I can understand that but what I can't understand is that with as many years of Linux being targeted to desktop users, especially Windows users looking to get more life out of a 2yr old piece of equipment, why has the suspend issue not been addressed? To me, this is like the top PCMCIA slot not working with any newer distros because 'hardly anyone uses it'. Fixing the issue should not fall onto the backs of individual distros devs. Suspend is a basic feature of a desktop OS, as far as I am concerned, and should have basic support in all Linux desktop editions. If the latest and greatest video cards and new high speed wireless cards can be supported, there is no reason suspend can not be properly supported. It is a matter of lack of interest, just like the PCMCIA port issue. Maybe there needs to be a laptop and tablet specific version of Linux that supports things like suspend, better power management, better touchscreen support, etc. To do that, would an all new kernel have to be coded, or could an existing kernel have parts removed and new code inserted to support laptop/tablet specific hardware?
What about LFS, Linux From Scratch? Would something like that be a good place to start, or is the kernel where changes need to start?
When I think about Linux problems, I think of you , SHEEPMAN! and kode-niner, in no particular order, as the people who will come up with solutions. I don't know if that would be considered an honor or not.
CF-D1DW2,CF-29LTQ,CF-31SBM,CF-52youngGUN,

Life's Journey is not to arrive safely at the grave in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn-out shouting 'Woo Hoo! What a ride!

Motorsports - the only real sport. If it doesn't have a motor, it is just a game.

There is always something waiting at the end of the road, if you are not willing to see what it is, you probably shouldn't be out there in the first place.

Michael AU
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2022 6:35 pm

Re: Getting CF-29 MK4 to wake up from suspend state

#47 Post by Michael AU »

As a bit of an explanation of how things work with "Linux" I'll compare it to old versions of Windows. From Windows 1 through to Windows ME the operating system (kernel) was MS-DOS. DOS stands for Disk Operating System. It operated the hardware. Windows, the gui was a layer on top of MS-DOS and could be turned off easily. In our systems Linux is the Kernel, the GUI is a mixture of GNU, Windows Managers (WM), and Desktop Environments (DE). We can run Linux without the gui if we want to. The kernel operates the hardware so yes it is a kernel issue. Having said that each DE, I'm not sure about WMs, implements power management differently so that impacts on the kernel. The difference between Linux and Windows is Windows as we now know it is Monolithic, Linux is Modular. Windows 1-ME was modular. As far as I am aware you can't operate modern Windows without the gui, it won't let you just operate from the kernel level.The Windows kernel is huge and cannot be made smaller unless Microsoft pulls out old no longer used code and they do actually do that so old hardware is obsoleted. 99.9% of hardware manufacturers create drivers for Windows, Microsoft also creates drivers for alot of hardware but it is not as good as manufacturer code. Microsoft pays alot of people to specifically work on hardware adaption. Linux has a paid developer community but not as many as Microsoft or Apple or even Google. Most of development of Linux is done by people volunteering their time. some hardware manufacturers develop code, usually non-free, for Linux but not to the level or standard of their Windows equivalents so it is left to the volunteer community to engineer new code that is free to use and modify. Example of this are the Neuvo (sp?) drivers for Nvidia products. Realistically speaking we are actually quite lucky to have Linux as it is, if it wasn't for volunteers Linux wouldn't be anything like it is now.

With regards to developing a new kernel Google has been trying to do that for years with Fuschia and before that the FSF has been developing Hurd. Hurd is available as a Debian download. Fuschia is not available as far as I am aware.

Linux from scratch is a great project to try if you have alot of time, patience, and generally know alot about troubleshooting, building, compiling, modifying settings within code. I did it years ago and would encourage anyone that wants to learn Linux right down to the core. It is well documented with plenty of support but it is not easy.

I consider it an honour because the statement come from a friend, I also consider it even more of an honour because you put me in the same group as Sheepman and Kode-Niner. Sheepman is the ultimate bush mechanic of Linux in my mind, he gets in and achieves so much. Kode-Niner is well versed in Linux and has probably forgotten more than I will ever know, his knowledge is many levels beyond mine. So yes I am honoured.
CF-29 x 3, CF-30, CF-31, CF-D1.

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mklym
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Location: Edmonton, Alberta

Re: Getting CF-29 MK4 to wake up from suspend state

#48 Post by mklym »

Thank you for the review, a good refresher. As Linux gains popularity, the possibility of attracting new/more devs should increase. Maybe there should be a 'Go-Fund-Me' thing for Linux devs. Money is a good magnet for most people.

Read through a bit of the Hurd FAQ. Interesting. Maybe I should try a basic Debian install, then load Hurd from the repos.

I have other things that need attention, but will still pursue this.

"I don't know if that would be considered an honor or not." I put that line in at the end because I am a bit(?) of a smart ass. Great reply!

I am honored to be in the company, and have access to the knowledge of, the Linux gurus that are here. :salute:
CF-D1DW2,CF-29LTQ,CF-31SBM,CF-52youngGUN,

Life's Journey is not to arrive safely at the grave in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways totally worn-out shouting 'Woo Hoo! What a ride!

Motorsports - the only real sport. If it doesn't have a motor, it is just a game.

There is always something waiting at the end of the road, if you are not willing to see what it is, you probably shouldn't be out there in the first place.

Michael AU
Posts: 32
Joined: Sat Feb 05, 2022 6:35 pm

Re: Getting CF-29 MK4 to wake up from suspend state

#49 Post by Michael AU »

mklym wrote: Tue Jun 28, 2022 10:08 am"I don't know if that would be considered an honor or not." I put that line in at the end because I am a bit(?) of a smart ass. Great reply!
I remember, good thing you are in company such as ours! :headbang:
CF-29 x 3, CF-30, CF-31, CF-D1.

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