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 Post subject: Re: Linux's worst enemy
PostPosted: Thu Sep 17, 2015 9:29 pm 
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In the end, I have less problems with hardware in Linux than I do with Windows.

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 Post subject: Re: Linux's worst enemy
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 5:40 am 
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I don't doubt that once installed Linux can be fine with hardware....But sloppy and lazy coding makes setup and installation of hardware extremely difficult unless you are a software/ programming geek. I admit that I am a hardware guy, but I can fumble through and figure the software end. I am far from a stupid newbie

I know the following example is not about native Linux apps, but it applies just the same..
Wine and Crossover...Crossover is a FOR PAY version....
Both apps tell me that I will have to manually add symlinks to the dosdevices folder. This is for USB and COM ports...Ok COM ports are not very popular..But USB ports? Just because the coders could not add three lines of code to make the installer create those folders/files on its own??? IF--THEN statements are pretty easy..even for a hardware guy like me.
Both of these programs bluntly state they don't support hardware. What's the point without real support for basic hardware?
Fine if I don't need to print or use a GPS, or maybe a scanner....Linux seems great on a net surfing machine.

I did another fresh install of Makulu yesterday...All I did was update repositories and run update.. It gets stuck on an update it can not do...More obscure file names ( I admit windows does this too) and zero explanation of what to do. Or try to install GPSdrive through package manager...The name is there, but the program is defunct and not available. It halfway installs and leaves chunks everywhere...How is this better than Windows?
I know am tired and frustrated, but The rhetoric of Windows sucks, Linux is wonderful and if Linux don't work, it's always MY fault. I am just not willing to accept it's different or I don't understand, or whatever other excuse is given to blame someone else for unfinished and sloppy programs...Linux is all BETA...I have yet to see a finished acceptable product...

I can accept and learn different OS quirks. I installed OSX on a CF52 and I would still be using it except it does not support Intel wifi
cards.

I think an ideal OS for me would have the hardware plug and play of Windows, the security of OSX and the desktop flexability of Linux.
Build it and they will come...

EdIt ,
I have to take back my statement about not seeing a finished Linux product...I have..
Android..
Garmin OS on their handheld units.
Bazillion different routers...
Synaptic NAS..

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Last edited by Shawn on Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Linux's worst enemy
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 12:49 pm 
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Well, I'm not arguing. Everyone's experience can differ. As for mine, there's a reason why I stick with either the main Debian, Red Hat/CentOS or Slackware distributions instead of the dozens of offshoots and variants for daily use. In my professional life I run several Linux servers and I can't afford to be experimenting with every newcomer that shows up on distrowatch.com. So my philosophy of stay-with-the-main-branches, stick-with-what-you-know and keep-it-simple-stupid has trickled down to my desktop computers and Toughbooks and makes my life so much easier all around.

When I say that running Windows Servers, of which I also manage several, are so much more of a pain in the ass, this is experience talking. Not rhetoric.

As with all things, your mileage my vary. :o

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 Post subject: Re: Linux's worst enemy
PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2015 10:31 pm 
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Sadlmkr wrote:
1. Jeff agrees with the balance of Shawn's cut and paste as well as his forum comments.
2. Jeff uses Linux anyway because he is bull-headed, figures stuff out and never consults Linux forums.
3. Jeff has SHEEP!


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 Post subject: Re: Linux's worst enemy
PostPosted: Sat Sep 19, 2015 4:00 am 
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Kerry,
That is funny...

Kode,

I forgot how well Linux works on servers, and Linux does extremely well on servers.. I will check into those distros....The main Debian sounds like one to explore. Time to do some reading...

Desktops/laptops do have a very different set of needs. And a server usually has it's own IT to maintain it...
Maybe that's it....Linux is an exceptional server OS that people have attempted to re-purpose into a desktop/laptop OS....Unless you have an IT dept or lots of time/experience to dink with Linux, it comes up short as a desktop/laptop OS. It does greatly miss the target on a few of the common desktop/laptop needs....
Servers don't need GPS or the other hardware needs of a desktop/laptop.... If you find your server driving around searching for a good place to eat, I think you may have a bigger problem...

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 Post subject: Re: Linux's worst enemy
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 7:17 am 
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IMHO the biggest problem of Linux is the absence of a unified API due to the fact that it's not an OS but a Kernel. Because of that, it doesn't have a default desktop manager and commercial developers don't want to waste their time on such a volatile platform . I see PCBSD readier than Linux for the desktop, unfortunately, It has less device support..

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 Post subject: Re: Linux's worst enemy
PostPosted: Wed Oct 28, 2015 8:37 am 
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It's a kernel and not an OS....That really does sum it up pretty well.
I am expecting/hoping it to operate like OSX or Windows. But they are full operating systems.
The Linux kernel is very good and acceptable for use. The "homemade" bits to turn it into an OS, not so much.

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 Post subject: Re: Linux's worst enemy
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:06 am 
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That's why I think PC-BSD is doing it really well as they are following the appropriate approach in how a unix-like OS should work for the masses. Desktop users don't want to fight against library dependencies like they have to do with linux distros if the app isn't in the repository. People want computers to work for them not the opposite.

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 Post subject: Re: Linux's worst enemy
PostPosted: Thu Oct 29, 2015 11:53 am 
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So..Please explain it to me.
What are the basic improvements PC-BSD has over shall we say Mint?
Explain it so a advanced Windows user can understand. Assume I know little to nothing about Linux.

Thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Linux's worst enemy
PostPosted: Fri Oct 30, 2015 5:17 pm 
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From a user perspective, probably not much. The command options are a bit different, due to the different lineages of BSD and GNU/Linux. Linux supports more hardware (with a few exceptions).

Underneath, Linux is generally quicker to try new things and new approaches. The BSDs take more time to incorporate new features, but many feel that they do a better job of engineering these features, with the side effect that once something goes in, it's "done right", with less of the, shall we say, "experimental" nature Linux sometimes has.

Documentation is very important in the BSD projects, and I've found the man pages to be great sources of information. There are usually other sources, too, like a "handbook"-style general guide, the sort of thing that gets relegated to a wiki with some Linux distros.

Probably the biggest concern for BSD on the desktop for the casual user is the increasing tendency for developers to target Linux specifically and not worry about portability. The BSD teams have had to write compatibility shims to emulate certain Linux programming interfaces to get things like window managers to run. Hopefully if BSD gets more popular (thanks systemd :)) this will become less of an issue.

I haven't used PC-BSD yet, but I plan to try OpenBSD (which I have used for a long time) and FreeBSD or PC-BSD on my Toughbooks. I use Linux too, and while I prefer the BSD CLI environment, in the end the best tool for the job wins.


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