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PostPosted: Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:53 pm 
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:05 am
Posts: 6
Location: Germany
Hi fellows,
again I would like to ask for your ideas and knowledge.
I need an addition to my computer collection. What I am missing is a tablet/tabletlike/2in1convertible to make sketches. Maybe light work with Blender for 3D sketches and use as offroad navigation. For that reason a large bright screen with digitizer is an absolute must-have. Possible sites of operation including my bed, sunbed in the garden, holiday on the beach or vacation near Sahara desert.

Panasonic CF-20, CF-33 and FZ-G1 looks promissing, but I am concerned about the ruggedness and fans. I have seen some YouTube Videos like
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=uMDqqf2blCg
and similar ones for the FZ-G1 but nothing about the CF-33.

Viewing the CF-20 videos I couldn't see any rubber seal at all. None around the backplate (which covers the batterie compartment), none around the inner backplate (which covers SSD WLAN etc.) and none around all the side and corner parts. Of course all connections have rubber doors but is the CF-20 really rugged?

The FZ-G1 seems to have rubber seals all around but I couldn't see if the fan is permeable or works externally with the aid of an heat exchange plate. And what's about cleaning the fan? And how loud is it?

Same questions for the CF-33: is the fan open to the interior or does it cools down a part of the case which works as a heat spreader and works therefor only external? And again the questions concerning cleaning and loudness of the fan. And also the doubts about ruggedness.

Some other thoughts:
CF-20 Mk.1 seems comparable to FZ-G1 Mk.4 in CPU passmark, CF-33 is better. I felt instantly in love with CF-20, CF-33 looks also good, FZ-G1 looks a little bit ugly. FZ-G1 has the digitizer on the wrong side.
FZ-G1 is more common - better supply of spare parts and additional batteries also in the future compared to CF-20 and CF-33. Both CF with additional ports in keyboard compared to G1 with iKey, but iKey available in rubber silicone. CF-20 without fan. A lot of used G1 here in Germany hence this is the cheapest one. A used CF-20 costs around 2.000$. No used CF-33 at all - very expensive. Vehicle docks with antenna-go-through for all of them. By the way: why are there 4 different options for antenna-go-through? Does Panasonic really builds 4 different cables? As an engineer I would include the same cable in all variants and what goes through depends on the cards installed. Does an external battery charger for cars exists?

My selection criterias:
(must have)
1. Big screen resolution (as big as possible)
2. Bright screen (outdoor useable)
3. Digitizer with many pressure stages (Wacom?)
4. Rugged (at least dust sealed)
5. Changeable batteries
6. Windows 7 preferred, Windows 10 or Linux (or MacOS) possible. Android and iOS impossible
(nice to have)
7. Avoid fan If possible (intrusion of dust, obstructed by blanket)
8. Powerfull CPU (and GPU)
9. As small and light as possible
10. AdobeRGB or sRGB color rendering to work with pictures as well
11. Dedicated GPS desired
12. Preferred configuration WiFi, Bluetooth, min. 8GB RAM, min. 512GB SSD in 2 partitions. I don't need WWAN. At least 1 USB (better 2) to make images of the OS

My CF-19Mk7 fails in 1,9 and 10. My ThinkPad X201t fails in 1,2,4,7 and is mediocre in 8,10 and 11. My ThinkPad X60t fails in 2,4,7,8 and is mediocre in 1, 10 and 11.

Many thanks to all of you who finished this little novel :notworthy:


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:12 pm 
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Toughbooktalk Founder
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Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:23 pm
Posts: 3612
I have BRAND NEW CF-20 MK1's with 16GB of RAM in them for $2200/each.

email me if you're interested - rob@ruggeddepot.com:

CF-20C1153VM - Win10 Pro, Intel Core m5-6Y57 1.10GHz, vPro, 10.1" WUXGA 10-pt Gloved Multi Touch+Digitizer, 16GB, 256GB SSD, Intel WiFi a/b/g/n/ac, TPM, Bluetooth, Dual Pass (Ch1:WWAN/Ch2:WWAN), Webcam, No Rear Camera, Emissive Backlit Keyboard, 3 Year Panasonic Warranty

Thanks!

_________________
~Rob - Rugged Depot ~ Cell: (630)/300-8877~

~Fully rugged Toughbook user since April 18th 2005~
~New 3/16/18 - CF-54F0001KM Win10, Intel Core i5 6300U 2.4GHz, 240GB SSD, 12GB, Verizon 4G LTE, Intel 8260 WiFi a/b/g/n/ac, Bluetooth~
~For the wife (New 1/25/18): CF-54F0962KM/i5/128GB SSD/8GB/Win 10~
~Others: CF-52MLBBQ2M (Home Workstation)
~New 11/13/14 Donations thanks to everyone at Toughbooktalk: IBM xSeries 3650/2 x Xeon X5560 2.8GHz/16GB RAM/8 x 600GB 10KRPM SAS RAID 5/3.71TB Space/Win 2008 R2/3000VA + 1250VA Battery Backup~
~AT&T 1GB Fiber 1GB/1GB business static line~
~Gamber & Johnson Platinum Partner~

http://www.toughbooktalk.com
http://www.toughbooktalk.com/public_downloads
http://www.toughwiki.com


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PostPosted: Fri Jul 24, 2020 2:17 pm 
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Toughbooktalk Founder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:23 pm
Posts: 3612
I have BRAND NEW CF-20 MK1's with 16GB of RAM in them for $2200/each.

email me if you're interested - rob@ruggeddepot.com:

CF-20C1153VM - Win10 Pro, Intel Core m5-6Y57 1.10GHz, vPro, 10.1" WUXGA 10-pt Gloved Multi Touch+Digitizer, 16GB, 256GB SSD, Intel WiFi a/b/g/n/ac, TPM, Bluetooth, Dual Pass (Ch1:WWAN/Ch2:WWAN), Webcam, No Rear Camera, Emissive Backlit Keyboard, 3 Year Panasonic Warranty

Thanks!

_________________
~Rob - Rugged Depot ~ Cell: (630)/300-8877~

~Fully rugged Toughbook user since April 18th 2005~
~New 3/16/18 - CF-54F0001KM Win10, Intel Core i5 6300U 2.4GHz, 240GB SSD, 12GB, Verizon 4G LTE, Intel 8260 WiFi a/b/g/n/ac, Bluetooth~
~For the wife (New 1/25/18): CF-54F0962KM/i5/128GB SSD/8GB/Win 10~
~Others: CF-52MLBBQ2M (Home Workstation)
~New 11/13/14 Donations thanks to everyone at Toughbooktalk: IBM xSeries 3650/2 x Xeon X5560 2.8GHz/16GB RAM/8 x 600GB 10KRPM SAS RAID 5/3.71TB Space/Win 2008 R2/3000VA + 1250VA Battery Backup~
~AT&T 1GB Fiber 1GB/1GB business static line~
~Gamber & Johnson Platinum Partner~

http://www.toughbooktalk.com
http://www.toughbooktalk.com/public_downloads
http://www.toughwiki.com


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PostPosted: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:38 am 
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Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2018 11:05 am
Posts: 6
Location: Germany
Last week I was at my local Panasonic dealer and had about one hour with all 3 machines side by side.

First I was surprised how big the CF-33 is and how cute the CF-20 is.

Then I've tested the brightness ourdoors and this was the second surprise: the CF-20 was by far the darkest. It was perfect useable in the shadows, difficult to recognize in unobstructed light and nearly indistinguishable in direct sunlight. The CF-33 and the FZ-G1 appeared to be of the same brightness. Perfect in the shadows, good to use in normal light and difficult in direct sunlight.
What I don't understand: how is that possible? CF-20 and FZ-G1 are specified at 800nits and CF-33 at 1200nits. Why perfomed the FZ-G1 so good?
All 3 had the same system settings!

Next I've tested the pressure sensitivity of the digitizer and I was very disappointed. Again all 3 had the same settings but I couldn't install own programms so I used Windows Paint 3d. If I remember correctly it was also Paint 3d which gave me a smooth and pleasant experience on a Microsoft Surface some months ago. But on all 3 Thoughbooks it was the same awfull experience - can't bear the comparision with my Wacom at home - like only 4 useable pressure stages. Did I've expected to much?

Next to test was the fans. I needed to put my ear directly in front of the CF-33 to hear the fan. The FZ-G1 was recognizable from about 2 meters away. Not annoying but clearly audible.
On the FZ-G1 there are 3 parts of the fan with visible gaps and screws in the case. I expect them to be removable for cleaning purposes but I have no proof for my assumption. On the CF-33 there was nothing visible and I've asked the salesman who didn't know it and had to call an technician himself. The answer was to remove the complete foldable backplate to be able to clean the fan. Not an pleasing answer but possible at least. Regarding the ruggedness of the fans the salesman told me that on both machines they are working in a sealed manner with heatpipes and no direct possibility for dust or humidity to be intrusive to the mainboard. As I've expected in my first post but again no proof and the information is from the same company who told me allready crap regarding the keyboard of my CF-19 one year ago, so I have to take it with 2 grains of salt.

The salesman told me about an CF-33 Mk.2 later this year. Does anybody of you know something about this or the specs?

I've seen antenna connectors in a different position on every machine. Understandable from a company point of view but for a client it means a different dock for each machine.
In addition he didn't know a rugged car dock, neither for my old CF-19 nor for one of the new machines. So regardless which machine or car dock I will use in the future I have to modify it with a backside seal myself.

Regarding the different antenna-go-through options he couldn't give me an extensive answer and told me something about different distributing platines for each option. As a result it seems to be not as easy as removing the WWAN board and put in the Neo GPS. In addition the CF-20 shall have only one slot for WWAN and GPS where the other 2 are supposed to have 2 different slots for both cards at the same time.

In total I am a little bit disenchanted right know and no longer confident to find the perfect one-machine-fits-all for my purposes.


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PostPosted: Sun Aug 16, 2020 12:26 pm 
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Toughbooktalk Founder
User avatar

Joined: Mon Mar 16, 2009 8:23 pm
Posts: 3612
Jens,

I just sent you an email now. I'm back in the office officially as tomorrow!

Thanks,
Rob

_________________
~Rob - Rugged Depot ~ Cell: (630)/300-8877~

~Fully rugged Toughbook user since April 18th 2005~
~New 3/16/18 - CF-54F0001KM Win10, Intel Core i5 6300U 2.4GHz, 240GB SSD, 12GB, Verizon 4G LTE, Intel 8260 WiFi a/b/g/n/ac, Bluetooth~
~For the wife (New 1/25/18): CF-54F0962KM/i5/128GB SSD/8GB/Win 10~
~Others: CF-52MLBBQ2M (Home Workstation)
~New 11/13/14 Donations thanks to everyone at Toughbooktalk: IBM xSeries 3650/2 x Xeon X5560 2.8GHz/16GB RAM/8 x 600GB 10KRPM SAS RAID 5/3.71TB Space/Win 2008 R2/3000VA + 1250VA Battery Backup~
~AT&T 1GB Fiber 1GB/1GB business static line~
~Gamber & Johnson Platinum Partner~

http://www.toughbooktalk.com
http://www.toughbooktalk.com/public_downloads
http://www.toughwiki.com


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